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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Real Name: Kurt
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Well, since the news has not yet broken on the board yet, I’ll make it official here. As many of you know, Northeast Ohio was home to four ACA Allertor 125’s (the only in the region) in Knox Township in Columbiana County. These Allertors were completely refurbished, restored and reinstalled and dedicated on July 5, 2013 by a Mr. Carver (one of the Knox Township trustees). They belonged to Beaver Valley Nuclear Power Station’s old Siren System prior to FENOC’s (FirstEnergy Nuclear Operating Company, now FirstEnergy Solutions) siren upgrade to all Equinoxes at both Perry Nuclear Power Plant and Beaver Valley Nuclear (initially started at BVPS in 2002 with 2001-SRN’s, SRNB’s, and later 2001-130’s being installed before the rest of the ACA System was removed and Equinoxes went up in the remaining locations) in 2011 and 2012. Beaver Valley was the first plant upgraded.

Knox Township acquired five Allertor 125’s (two of which are confirmed to be ex-BVPS siren numbers 135 and 76, the other decals were painted over and are unreadable) in 2012 after the upgrade and completely refurbished them inside and out. Unfortunately, they added third party two-tone radios to the control cabinets themselves. These radios were not installed properly and thus, the system does not work all the time. The Township decided last year it would be best to replace all five sirens instead of getting new radios (when they were at Beaver Valley, they ran off two-way FC controllers) for them, as they did not realize this was the problem (as the system does not always activate on the old radios) and purchased one Sentry 3V8-H-B, and four Sentry 14V-AC’s (three phase) from C & K Early Warning Systems in Litchfield. The sirens were delivered to Knox Township (presumably) late last year and were kept in storage until the township could install them.

The fifth Allertor was blown down in a strong storm several years ago and was removed after being irreparably damaged (this was the unit replaced with the 3V8-H-B on Tuesday). The four new 14V’s were installed on Friday, March 22, 2019. Knox Township is removing the old motor starters and installing new ones in the existing ACA cabinets (per an email from C&K; I inquired about the new sirens) and is also keeping the old radios in the cabinets as well (which means their new system will be just as unreliable as the previous one... unfortunately they didn't do their homework and put 2 and 2 together).

Instead of having these four old sirens go to waste (as they were full restored and refurbished back in 2013), I had a plan to get these sirens along with a friend of mine who is also familiar with sirens as well, cosmetically restore them and repair them as needed, and donate them to my town for installation, as we are currently lacking siren coverage (we only have one siren, a 2001-130, installed in 2017, and it only covers about 10% of the entire town), and we do not have the funding necessary to pay for new sirens (one 2001-130 set us back about $32, 000). Per the Federal Signal sound study done at the time, at least four new sirens would need to be installed to provide full coverage, and doing this would provide the full coverage necessary for the entire Village to be alerted in an emergency should persons be outdoors (one siren will be placed near a county metro park which gets very crowded on the weekends and this is an area which existing siren coverage does not reach). They would also be in township limits despite being owned and operated by the village (which is who we plan to give them to) so chances are I'd have to present it to them twice.

That being said, when we pick up the Allertors, hopefully soon in May (we are still awaiting final approval from Knox Township, but to our knowledge the sirens have been saved for us), the only existing control equipment we would receive will be the three phase motor starter (and I am not sure yet if we will even get that equipment as I am unsure as to whether or not it was saved for us); we requested that the starters be saved, but have not heard back from the Township Trustee in charge of the project since, however we have been actively working to get in contact with him personally.

The sirens would be hooked up with just their motor starters to a two-way FC controller (I’m not quite sure which kind we’d need but FFS would probably figure that out) (as we use a Commander system with a computer interface at the police station/regional dispatch center in the village for siren activation).

My question is, is this possible? Based on what I have read in all the applicable installation manuals, it should work as I have seen Federal Signal sirens such as the STH-10 hooked up in this way. We have three phase power available at each siren site and would be willing to work with the utility to get that figured out if needed. If Knox Township (where we are getting the sirens from) does not provide the motor starters, where would I get four motor starters for 4 three-phase ACA Allertor 125’s?

I’d assume they’re not cheap either, and since I am donating them to the village afterwards (I would oversee and assist with the install to make sure it follows ACA procedures), I am trying to save them as much money as possible but I want to give them four working sirens that will last them many years while making a significant contribution to public safety in my community (as this is the community I reside in), but I’m not made of money either as I am a student about to graduate from high school.

The Village would be paying for the radios, as they have to get them from Federal Field Services (Northeast Ohio’s regional Federal Signal dealer), as well as some of the installation costs, and I would be overseeing the installation to make sure it follows proper installation procedures and processes that ACA set for the Allertor 125. These Allertors are three phase models and were manufactured in the early 1980’s, but FFS would probably take care of most of the install and we’d just be there to oversee that it’s done to ACA specs and install guidelines.

This is all still in the works at this point, because if we obtain the sirens we will be refurbishing them first before presenting the project to the Village (we want to make sure we have everything done with the sirens before they go buying the new radios and paying for the installation). I just decided to post this now in April because today I mailed a letter to the Knox Township trustee that offered the sirens to us as I have not heard back from him via email since late March and figured mailing him a letter might get his attention better, but anyways, any answers to these questions would be appreciated. Feel free to reply here or PM me, doesn't really matter to me which you decide to choose.

Thanks for any input!

_________________
firefreak57, Fire Alarm and Siren Enthusiast. Now living in SW Ohio.
Proud owner of an ACA Allertor 125 Single Phase Control Cabinet.
My YouTube Channel | Summit County Siren Map | Cuyahoga County Siren Map


Last edited by fire_freak_57 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:15 pm 
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If anyone could answer the above question that has experience with sirens, that would be great.

I have mailed a letter out to the Knox township trustee which removed the sirens, and if successful, we should be going down there to pick up all four Allertors later this month.

I need an answer to this question because I am presenting a presentation to my local Village Council about our plan with the sirens, and I need correct financials to determine the cost of the new radios/controllers.

Also, does anyone know what type and where I can get four Allertor 125 3 phase motor starters (in case they are not provided to us)? Thank you.

_________________
firefreak57, Fire Alarm and Siren Enthusiast. Now living in SW Ohio.
Proud owner of an ACA Allertor 125 Single Phase Control Cabinet.
My YouTube Channel | Summit County Siren Map | Cuyahoga County Siren Map


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:11 pm 
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fire_freak_57 wrote: *
If anyone could answer the above question that has experience with sirens, that would be great.

I have mailed a letter out to the Knox township trustee which removed the sirens, and if successful, we should be going down there to pick up all four Allertors later this month.

I need an answer to this question because I am presenting a presentation to my local Village Council about our plan with the sirens, and I need correct financials to determine the cost of the new radios/controllers.

Also, does anyone know what type and where I can get four Allertor 125 3 phase motor starters (in case they are not provided to us)? Thank you.
I really hope you know what you are getting your self into. A new two way FC installed is a little over $5200 a piece. For system optimization such as programing the FC's and entering them in Commander (if there is room for them) it would be an additional $4,000. For installation given you are putting them on a 45' class three pole will be close to $4,000 a new three-phase motor starter is around $500 without weatherproof enclosure, but there should be room in the two-way FC box to mount it. I do not know what condition these sirens are in but to refurbish each of them is going to cost a bit also refurbish does not mean throw a new coat of paint on and call it a day. By the time you are all said and done as a general estimate you are looking at about $10,700 a site and that is on the low end. Like I said these are general numbers, but there is a lot of work that goes into a project like this and is not a simple as it seems. Hope this helps you out.

_________________
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:42 pm 
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FSThunderboltfan1000 wrote: *
fire_freak_57 wrote: *
If anyone could answer the above question that has experience with sirens, that would be great.

I have mailed a letter out to the Knox township trustee which removed the sirens, and if successful, we should be going down there to pick up all four Allertors later this month.

I need an answer to this question because I am presenting a presentation to my local Village Council about our plan with the sirens, and I need correct financials to determine the cost of the new radios/controllers.

Also, does anyone know what type and where I can get four Allertor 125 3 phase motor starters (in case they are not provided to us)? Thank you.
I really hope you know what you are getting your self into. A new two way FC installed is a little over $5200 a piece. For system optimization such as programing the FC's and entering them in Commander (if there is room for them) it would be an additional $4,000. For installation given you are putting them on a 45' class three pole will be close to $4,000 a new three-phase motor starter is around $500 without weatherproof enclosure, but there should be room in the two-way FC box to mount it. I do not know what condition these sirens are in but to refurbish each of them is going to cost a bit also refurbish does not mean throw a new coat of paint on and call it a day. By the time you are all said and done as a general estimate you are looking at about $10,700 a site and that is on the low end. Like I said these are general numbers, but there is a lot of work that goes into a project like this and is not a simple as it seems. Hope this helps you out.
It comes up to about $42,800 for all four sirens using your estimate.

Conversely we are still saving more than what it would cost to install new 2001-130 siren sites. It cost $32,000 when all said and done for one 2001-130 siren site when we had our first and only siren installed in 2017. To cover the entire village we would need four new siren sites. The cost of four new 2001-130 siren sites using the 2017 price (I did confirm this price by using several news articles and checking council meeting minutes) is $128,000. Installing refurbished sirens would save us about $85,200. That’s a over half of what it would cost to install 4 brand new 2001-130 siren sites at a cost of $128,000.

Considering the Village’s large annual budget it is more than feasible to get this project done and I hope to meet with council soon about expenses.

To answer your question about the condition of the sirens, they were refurbished both mechanically and cosmetically back in 2012 by Knox Township before they installed the Allertors in 2013. They were removed from Beaver Valley Nuclear Power Station’s old siren system back in 2011 when FirstEnergy replaced the old siren system. So they are in very good condition still and I don’t expect a lot of stuff to have to do with them (unless they are in worse condition post removal however I was assured the sirens were going to be removed as carefully as possible).

_________________
firefreak57, Fire Alarm and Siren Enthusiast. Now living in SW Ohio.
Proud owner of an ACA Allertor 125 Single Phase Control Cabinet.
My YouTube Channel | Summit County Siren Map | Cuyahoga County Siren Map


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Annother good option would be to see if Federal Field Services has any older 2001's that would be easier and more cost-effective than putting the Allertors back up.

_________________
Proud owner of rcm1, model 2,2T,Model A, Thunderbolt 1003, AF timer, FS SS1000, 500SHST
Wisconsin siren services
http://tinyurl.com/cf53w2z


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:57 pm 
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FSThunderboltfan1000 wrote: *
Annother good option would be to see if Federal Field Services has any older 2001's that would be easier and more cost-effective than putting the Allertors back up.
I’m not sure. From what I’ve heard and seen, FFS does mostly new installs. That being said, they did, however, install some older Thunderbolts that were ex-Hamilton County units I believe in Warren County a few years back.

I’d still have to run some more fianicials and check with FirstEnergy to see what kind of power is available at the proposed locations as that could potentially drive up the cost of phase converters would be required.

I do want to stress that we certainly do not have the money to go with new sirens at this point, given that we just dolled out about $130,000 worth of money to ODOT for road repairs on OH-21...so the Allertors or what you propose would be more likely to be an option.

_________________
firefreak57, Fire Alarm and Siren Enthusiast. Now living in SW Ohio.
Proud owner of an ACA Allertor 125 Single Phase Control Cabinet.
My YouTube Channel | Summit County Siren Map | Cuyahoga County Siren Map


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:58 pm 
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Well, I am about ready to both cry and have a heart attack right now (not literally of course, but my heart is racing understandably).

Friend of mine passed through Knox Township and saw this today.

What really makes me angry is we emailed the township trustee to let him know we were interested both before and after the siren's removal and were told they would be stored for us.

Thanks for the help everyone. Unless this picture isn't real or there is somehow another Allertor still in storage (there was four removed and I can only see 3 in this picture), this is probably the end of this topic for now.

I can't believe this guy destroyed the sirens completely even after our multiple attempts to get them both before and after their removal.


Attachments:
File comment: Destroyed Knox Twp. ACA Allertors 5/4/19
[ attachment ]
IMG_4314.JPG [ 174.72 KiB | Viewed 916 times ]

_________________
firefreak57, Fire Alarm and Siren Enthusiast. Now living in SW Ohio.
Proud owner of an ACA Allertor 125 Single Phase Control Cabinet.
My YouTube Channel | Summit County Siren Map | Cuyahoga County Siren Map


Last edited by fire_freak_57 on Sun May 05, 2019 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:05 am 
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fire_freak_57 wrote: *
Well, I am about ready to both cry and have a heart attack right now (not literally of course, but my heart is racing understandably).

Friend of mine passed through Knox Township and saw this today.

What really makes me angry is we emailed the township trustee to let him know we were interested both before and after the siren's removal and were told they would be stored for us.

Thanks for the help everyone. Unless this picture isn't real or there is somehow another Allertor still in storage, this is probably the end of this topic for now.

I can't believe this guy destroyed the sirens completely even after our multiple attempts to get them both before and after their removal.
That's too bad. And even after multiple attempts were made. I'd reccomend, just to get back at them, to not tell them that their problem lies within their radios if you're ever in contact with the guy again. Almost serves them right for hosing up another city's safety like that.

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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:24 am 
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Phone Goat wrote: *
fire_freak_57 wrote: *
Well, I am about ready to both cry and have a heart attack right now (not literally of course, but my heart is racing understandably).

Friend of mine passed through Knox Township and saw this today.

What really makes me angry is we emailed the township trustee to let him know we were interested both before and after the siren's removal and were told they would be stored for us.

Thanks for the help everyone. Unless this picture isn't real or there is somehow another Allertor still in storage (there was four removed and I can only see 3 in this picture), this is probably the end of this topic for now.

I can't believe this guy destroyed the sirens completely even after our multiple attempts to get them both before and after their removal.
That's too bad. And even after multiple attempts were made. I'd reccomend, just to get back at them, to not tell them that their problem lies within their radios if you're ever in contact with the guy again. Almost serves them right for hosing up another city's safety like that.
Don't worry, I never mentioned the issue with the radios to them...nor did C&K, the Sentry dealer out here who sold the 14V's and the 3V8-H-B to them. I don't think Knox Township knows, and even if they do they obviously don't care.

I am going to contact a city in Portage County with an abandoned 2001-DC (was replaced by their old Sterling M-10 they restored) and see if we can get that instead...at least with that siren it is not only in fabulous condition but would really only need newer FS control boxes and a rectifier. If we end up getting that siren, I will see that it is placed near a local Metropark within our city that is in desperate need of siren coverage (nearest siren is across the Interstate the park bumps up to so you can't hear it and it's too far from the 2001 in the center of town) and the park is very populated with visitors and local residents (there is a subdivision right across the street from the Metropark too) so that would be an ideal location.

I'll update everyone on that situation as it develops, but us getting that siren seems much more likely than the Allertors, because those are completely destroyed and I can't do anything with those now.

Oh and if you're wondering, the Allertors were removed on March 23. We contacted him in January about our proposal of acquiring them, nearly 3 months prior to their removal. So it's not like there was a communication issue or something.

_________________
firefreak57, Fire Alarm and Siren Enthusiast. Now living in SW Ohio.
Proud owner of an ACA Allertor 125 Single Phase Control Cabinet.
My YouTube Channel | Summit County Siren Map | Cuyahoga County Siren Map


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:42 am 
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it almost looks like the siren motor core's got the big scrappage and they just dumped the housings for refuge/waste. it looks like at this point that getting them for restoration is a done deal unless you can somehow manage to find the chopper/motor/stator assembly's still intact.

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