Oregon's Thunderbolt is down! They're taking them all!

[ArrowShooter1003]

That's the biggest box I've seen on a siren besides the Thunderbolt's blower box.

[anepstad]

Dane County is getting 13 508 sirens, 3 Equinox Sirens and 4 eclipse 8s.

[ArrowShooter1003]

Awesome. I love 8 port sirens.

[Chicagosiren-hunters]

I didn't think that he Equinox was still made! That looks like a grand addition!

[Archon]

NOTE! Dane county does NOT test sirens in December January and February.

[turtlbrdr]

Finally Got a Reply:

Travis,

I’ve got both of your emails. I’ll try to respond to as many of the questions as I can, but please let me know if I’ve missed anything.

As part of a proactive effort to replace aging sirens, improve reliability, and improve coverage, the county is replacing all of its old sirens with new, battery operated models. I am in the process of updating our website to reflect the changes and upgrades planned for the system. This won’t be ready for a little bit yet, though.

For now, if you go to the current site at:

https://www.countyofdane.com/emergency/ ... fault.aspx

Look at the map and the siren map key . There are a couple of basic rules of thumb that you could use to get a picture of the plans:

1) Essentially, any siren that is not shown as a 2001-DC, a Tempest T-128, T121, or T-135 is scheduled to be replaced. There may be an exception here and there, but in general, this is the plan.

2) These replacements have been going for the last 5 or 6 years at the rate of 4 per year, replacing sirens as they fail and can not be repaired. This schedule as been accelerated, because the cost to replace sirens is increasing and so is the failure rate of the older sirens. The capital improvement plan now is to replace all of the remaining units in two years – 2014 and 2015. For scheduling purposes, the sirens outside the City of Madison were replaced in 2014. And the remaining sirens within the City will be done next year. Again, there were some exceptions because a number of sirens in the City had to be replaced in 2014 due to failure. I can answer questions of specifics if you have them.

As for the rare and unique sirens in Dane County’s system – I agree. We are well known in some circles for having a unique system. Unfortunately, many of those old models and types are well beyond their life expectancy. They are failing, and they can not be repaired when they do fail. You mentioned the Penetrator and Siratone models. Both of those types have been modified, and customized over the years in order to keep them running. We’ve even had parts reverse engineered and custom built for us in order to buy a little more time. And now those parts are failing. This is not acceptable for a critical public safety function like emergency warning. These are no longer reliable and must be replaced – as soon as possible. It is also not cost effective to attempt to keep these old units working.

The HOR on the roof of the City County Building may be an exception, but not because it is rare or unusual. That siren is solid and reliable and may remain in service for some time yet.

Private acquisition - The Department’s policy has been to scrap sirens as they are taken out of service. I’ve seen too many videos of people getting old sirens working in their garages or back yards and sounding them for demonstration. This is entirely unacceptable. From a public warning stand point, this is a false alarm which degrades the integrity of the whole system. That said, I also recognize that people have a legitimate interest in preserving some of these older siren types. I can’t make any promises, but I’ll see about holding a couple back in order to make them available. We may be able to do that if we can find a way to make the unit permanently inoperable. Again, I can’t make any promises. Also, demand would probably exceed our supply - we would not be able to just give them away to the first person that asks. There would be a surplus property disposal process that would have to be followed. I don’t know exactly how that works, but I’ll look into it.

Please let me know if you have any other questions or if you want to know about specific sirens.

Dave

I'm going to take a day or so to consider my reply. With work and everything I will probably send him an email sometime this weekend. I'm going to pop him a reply back though to thank him, and let him know I'm still interested, but will take a short while to gather my questions. Having been gone for two weeks he probably had a mile-stack of paperwork to get through and I recieved this email late last night, so I'm well impressed.

I have to think up a solution to this. As it sounds, the process would be intensive, but possible at this point. But I do not like the sound of making the unit "permanently inoperable". Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the avenue that Dave is coming from, citing a disturbance of system-warrant integrity; but at the same time, it makes me nervous. I know it would never be a problem with me. I don't have ready access to the voltages and AC phase required (3-phase, 220 volt correct?), and even if I did, I have no firm electrical experience and would not want to risk endangering the safety of either the Thunderbolt, nor my household by running around with it.

The only circumstance I would foresee it being used would be at this boards annual siren meet. Which I'm sure is done within cooperation of both neighbors and any local law enforcement. And if I had someone who was willing to help me with the setup, diagnosis, and repair of any problems. This however, would be a great capital expense for me which I would not be able to put up for for several years, at least.

So, to say the least; I am relieved, but conflicted.

[DJ2226]

Well this stinks. I'm going to rant a bit. Sorry man, but that made me a little mad.

The impression I'm getting is that he thinks you're going to get the sirens and run them for personal gain and for fun, which in turn would inevitably degrade the integrity of the whole system. It is one reason I've not said anything about our one remaining SD-10 to our EMA and fear that Ft. Benning officials would kick me off the base at the hint of their old 2001s... I think the MPs already think I'm crazy at the mire mention of me just liking the sirens. The way he assumes that they'd ultimately be used in this way is why this kinda upsets me. He probably doesn't know that people restore them to working order to be put back in service again, and they work just fine regardless of how far they "are well beyond their life expectancy." Tell that to Upson County and the Model 7 that kept kicking since 1926. Rendering the sirens "permanently inoperable" gives me a rotten impression. Reverse engineering parts, what the heck? What kind of problems are they having, the actual head or the controller? Those Penetrators and many others run on the grid. Replacing the controller with an FC, REACT, etc. and ditching the big UPS some of these things were coupled to would have worked out well. Hell, even the EOWS sirens would run fine if they'd replace the controllers on them with UltraVoices. I can somewhat understand the Thunderbolts with half dead choppers and what have you (I doubt that they would replace parts for them at this age and deal with the installation, PITA), but I won't buy too much into the idea that all of their old mechanical sirens are failing unless something is wrong with them mechanically. I'm also a bit surprised that the Siratones still have their original controllers since the county started upgrading the equipment and have gone to Federal Signal. When those controllers go south, they really go bad.

Sorry for the venting there. The whole thing gives me a bad vibe. I am happy that they are getting 508s, Equinoxes, and Eclipses though. They'll integrate in nicely with the other 8 port sirens.

[CDV777-1]

Private acquisition - The Department’s policy has been to scrap sirens as they are taken out of service. I’ve seen too many videos of people getting old sirens working in their garages or back yards and sounding them for demonstration. This is entirely unacceptable. From a public warning stand point, this is a false alarm which degrades the integrity of the whole system. That said, I also recognize that people have a legitimate interest in preserving some of these older siren types. I can’t make any promises, but I’ll see about holding a couple back in order to make them available. We may be able to do that if we can find a way to make the unit permanently inoperable

Of all the emergency management people I have dealt with over the years this is a first for me. Not that I am "dealing" with this guy though...
Are sirens some kind of weapons or something? The fact is is that virtually nobody notices a siren until the weather gets bad outside.
I've never heard of anyone obtaining a siren and running it during bad weather just to mess with people.
If someone was doing that then it would be "unacceptable."
I guess if I get a siren and rebuild it for a town that wants to put it back into service and then test it
in my garage in the middle of a sunny day (purposely around the usual test time) then I am doing something "unacceptable."
If I had contacted him and received a reply like that I wouldn't waste any more time trying to contact him again.
I wonder if they make the sirens "permanently inoperable" before they go to the scrap company.

[turtlbrdr]

Quick update guys, sent out my reply a few days ago, have yet to here back.

Dave

I'm sorry about the delay in my message. I was caught up with my occupation, retail, as Black Friday preparations and recovery caused me to take on more hours than normal.

One of the big things that worries me so far is rendering the siren(s) inoperable.

I will say, I haven't always been interested in the collection and preservation of sirens. I started to take interest in them earlier this year. I found that someone had pointed out a particular model and its location in a video about tornadoes. I took a chance, and since then have been hooked. I suppose since I was interested in things such as tornadoes, nuclear accidents, and other types of natural and man-made disasters it was only natural my interests would eventually lead me to the age of Civil Defense and the great fear that once gripped our county at all times of the day.

For Americans during the age of the Cold War, the siren was both something to be greatly respected, and to be greatly feared. As quick as their warning came, it needed to be heeded, as the atom bomb could be just as quick. These sirens were intended to, and would have served in, making sure that the United States and humanity as a whole had a chance of surviving the worst cataclysm to strike the planet since the Glaciers engulfed it.

This is why it pains me to hear that they must be rendered inoperable.

I have seen multiple hundreds of videos of sirens over this year. And while I do note that there are some of individuals running their units for demonstration, I find that a vast majority of the videos I have seen are of people who obtain recordings of legitimately placed sirens (ones in active service to their communities, such as I have done), or those who run their units within accordance of the law (getting permission to run their units by local law enforcement, more often than not in sync with local tests of active community sirens). I even know of one case where one person sounds their personal unit in cooperation with local law during warnings.

I will say, I have seen a few cases where individuals have exercised their units for demonstrations, usually those who have obtained them only as a novelty or "something cool". Collectors as I know them tend to follow the same idea I do, If someone were to obtain a working model it must be accompanied by a great due diligence on their end. Informing law enforcement, state/city/county government (if/when applicable), and all citizens within possible audible range of the time and date that any demonstrations or tests are to be undertaken. One must never forget my earlier statement about sirens, that their signal was to be greatly respected, and to that end, must never let it be misused.

In my case, I would not be able to sound any siren I get, especially on my own. I don't posses the knowledge of electrical and mechanical components required to return them to operating condition or to provide proper power.

I belong to a siren board that consists not only of admirers, watchers, and listeners; but also a great deal of collectors as well. Every year they meet in an event where they bring their units together known as the annual siren meet. At this event is the only conceivable location at which I would be able to use the units I collect if I was so inclined, due to the collection of knowledge from older veterans of the hobby. Many other collectors also do this, and the events always take place in an open, generally unpopulated, location with cooperation of local authorities.

Please let me know how you feel on this, I would very much like to hear any input you have on what I've said.



On another note, I do have one other person at this point interested in the sole FS 500at in Dane county. And I myself was interested in obtaining Brooklyn's 3T22, my current town of residence, but this one is being saved for parts as I was told. In that respect, should the time come I would be interested in obtaining one of the other 3T22's around the county, pending their condition. Brooklyn's 3T22 was in incredibly good condition when it was removed, and it has a couple of fans on my video of it.

Of course I am still interested in the Thunderbolt 1003 in Oregon as well.

Another question I had: Some of these towns in Dane county have sirens that have an expanded set of signals. Specifically the FS Thunderbolt 1003's, and the 3T22's. In a situation where they would otherwise be out of place, were those units ever sounded using their solenoids for hi-lo, pulsed, or the alternate wail signals? Usually used for fire signals, I know, are any of them still in use today for that use? Were any of the FS EOWS series sirens ever sounded in a similar manner?

I assume the ACA Perf+Penetrators were requested specifically by Dane county. What was the specification that required a new (albeit modified from an existing design) model? Why did no existing model work for our county at that time?

This is an odd request but, since the HOR Super Sirex will exist for a while longer, would it be possible I could record a test, and/or take pictures of the unit from upon your roof?



Thank you for your time, I look forward to your reply.

Thank you,
Travis

I'm hoping for a reply soon though.

[turtlbrdr]

Just an update, I'm essentially in a holding pattern right now with regards to aquisition

I have talked to Dave in the past weeks, but I've been unable to post about it since I've been away from my lab.

Essentially, the situation is that he is looking into how these could be saved. If it decided that they are "historical artifacts" our historical society will have first word with them. Otherwise they will be put up for auction on our surpluss site. That is, if it is possible.

Other questions I have been around to ask of him:

The solenoids on many of these units may have been used briefly, but due to problems that county had with them failing they have all been disconnected. None of the remainder are used in any manner. Two cities still do fire calls supposedly (Belleville and Marshall), but Dave describes this as a "different signal", I was unable to find out what that meant. I may call up the police/fire station in belleville and see what that may be over the top of the year.

The reason the Perf+Penetrators were produced for dane county (as much as he recalls, as it was before his time)is because the county wanted battery backup. Indeed when given my pictures of the verona one I video'd last month, there is a BIG battery box with these. This is because they don't work on DC current natively. There is an additional DC to AC converter (a Variable frequency drive) that was supplied with these units to make it possible. However, these devices were problematic and the sirens were soon relegated to having no backup power. Which leaves it a mystery why the battery box continued to exist alongside this siren. This is a mystery I will never solve because...

More sirens have disappeared. Dave confirms that the Perf+Penetrator that I video'd last month is gone. I was so incredulous at this that I had to go see it for myself. They had just finished moving this thing in the last four months to accommodate the new fire station and now it was gone. Additionally, the Siratone 1212 in the park is now gone. <b>The only remaining Perf+penetrator is in Mount Horeb</b>. On the plus side, Verona now has a brand new system of ASC T-128's, which I'm sure they'll be very happy with. As such Verona's entire system has been reconfigured. This you can see on my now released siren map here:https://airraidsirens.com/forums/viewto ... 24&t=17514

I will keep up and placing another call early next month (once the holiday season passes) to see about several other things.