Oregon's Thunderbolt is down! They're taking them all!

[ArrowShooter1003]

I agree.

[DJ2226]

I did mention that point when we talked on the phone. He is very well convinced that they are not worth the change of repairing/restoring/upkeep.

Ain't that some bull... a lot of them have 3 phase motors like the HOR siren, so what gives? Something tells me that the reason he thinks they aren't worth the money is because of the fact that they are AC powered and have a little age to them. Everything has to have battery packs and a DC motor or set of drivers nowadays I reckon...

[turtlbrdr]

I did mention that point when we talked on the phone. He is very well convinced that they are not worth the change of repairing/restoring/upkeep.

Ain't that some bull... a lot of them have 3 phase motors like the HOR siren, so what gives? Something tells me that the reason he thinks they aren't worth the money is because of the fact that they are AC powered and have a little age to them. Everything has to have battery packs and a DC motor or set of drivers nowadays I reckon...

He tells me these utilize a different type of AC than what is currently standard.

[FSThunderboltfan1000]

I did mention that point when we talked on the phone. He is very well convinced that they are not worth the change of repairing/restoring/upkeep.

Ain't that some bull... a lot of them have 3 phase motors like the HOR siren, so what gives? Something tells me that the reason he thinks they aren't worth the money is because of the fact that they are AC powered and have a little age to them. Everything has to have battery packs and a DC motor or set of drivers nowadays I reckon...

He tells me these utilize a different type of AC than what is currently standard.

The more conversations you have with this guy the more I think he as no clue what he is talking about. I think someone higher up may be telling him what to say.

[turtlbrdr]

The more conversations you have with this guy the more I think he as no clue what he is talking about. I think someone higher up may be telling him what to say.

Granted, this is all one conversation. But if I call him back with a question he isn't expecting...

But then, maybe I already have?

[turtlbrdr]

Yesterday, was enlightening.

Yesterday, I met with Dave, assistant Dane County EMA director. I had several questions for him, as you can imagine. One of the topics I did not break a lot into is the status of whether or not it would possible to obtain the units being taken down. As he replied: The issue is being taken up with the legal department, to be explored for its ramifications. At this point it is out of his hands.

One reason for the stop up is that this is the first time Wisconsin is encountering this situation. They have still-live sirens coming down and new units going up. Never before had a unit been taken down and tossed that wasn't believed to be dead (more on that in a bit). However, they are doing an upgrade which involves bringing down several live units and there is a legitimate, even I feel, concern that the units, if released to the public, would have the potential to cause public distress. Care has to be taken to explore all the issues, which is what the state is doing.

So now, with that disclaimer out of the way my big questions for him yesterday:

1. A lot of the sirens going in are FS 508 units. What was the reason for choosing these as the units being put up?
   The main considerations were Cost, Single-Phase power*, battery backup, and pitch
2. As for the 508 versus the 2001, what were the considerations there?
   Pitch. The 508 has a lower pitch that the 2001, and a greater range. Any siren the is receiving an upgrade that doesn't fit the 508's range is instead being replaced with ASC T-128's, FS Eclipse-8's, or FS Equinox's
3. Were sirens from ATI considered at any point?
   Yes, they made a bid. But we were only interested in Mechanical Sirens. (Interesting to note: He then asked me why I asked, I told him of the problems with reliability, and their inability to even size up to the sirens they were replacing. Considering other things I'll explore later, I doubt they were even a consideration.)
4. A week ago I recently visited Hill Electric, they had a couple of Model 7's Jim told me they were being held, if I may ask, what for?
   Since the Model 7's use single-phase power, they will be held and used to bridge gaps in coverage in the system
5. (Hard question) I know sirens have come out of the system before, due to this video and it's comments. How did it happen then?
   He didn't really have an answer, he postulated a late SD-10 that may have been it, but he remarked that it wasn't dead. There's also another that I know of that I'm going to ask him about at the next chance.
6. Hill Electric said that Brooklyn's 3T22 was marked to held for parts. But I assume all of the 3/2T22's are going. Do you know anything about it?
   None of the 3/2T22 are going to remain. Hill may be keeping these for purposes. They are allowed to use whatever they can instead of scrapping them.
7. Do you know anything about Oregon's Thunderbolt (which had gone missing from Hill)?
   No (I'll be following up with Hill next week.)

These were some of the questions that were answered quickly. The rest I'll editorialize.

We got into talking about the replacement of the system itself. For the most part, they have been working in line with what Dave said in his email earlier. Priority is on the sirens on that fail. But ultimately, the entirely of the system is being overhauled. As for now, the upgrades have been paused. The next wave will likely be that last, but it will take several months of planning before they are ready to hit ground. This will likely be around August. So those around will do well to get pictures and video of the sirens that remain. As such, the EMA has updated their map to reflect the systems current status. A side not is, the ACA Perf+Penetrator in Mount Horeb is still there, and it is the only remaining Perf+Penetrator in the world.

Talking more about the system I really got a feel for the two other biggest reasons that the sirens that are being replaced are. The primary reason besides the aging of our fleet is the availability and cost of supplying three-phase power. This seems to be an especially touted point. Sentry Sirens were also considered at one point, but were not considered afterwards because of their reliance on three-phase power. All of the sirens being installed are single-phase power, the ones being kept are single-phase power, and there are rare exceptions.

Another big consideration for removal were the EOWS systems. As Dave puts it "they are garbage." The units were installed in the 70's and 12-13 years later when Dave started his career they were already on the ropes. He remarks that if it wasn't for the services of a particularly skilled electrician keeping them up, they would have been gone ages ago. The tone generators in particular are troublesome, and it's not seen as worth it to upgrade them to Ultravoice controllers, while the drivers and horns are somewhat easy to replace. All in all, the units are 40 years old and are starting to fail harder. I figure this is the reason that ATI's bid was not considered, and moreover why only mechanical sirens were wanted.

I asked him two questions about the H.O.R. on the roof of the City County Building. Namely whether or not I could get pictures of the unit directly. That was a resounding "No". Unfortunately, since it's on top of the county jail as well, it's a secured area. And unfortunately he did not have pictures of that unit, but...

Finally, what seemed like an off-hand question I thought up before work became one of the most interesting pieces of the entire proceedings. I asked him, since there is an H.O.R. on top of City County Building, was there another one?

The answer was yes!

Back in Madison's history where the modern-day Granger Hall UW Building stands, there was the First National Bank building. One the top of that building was a sister H.O.R. Super Sirex. It was installed in 1953, in the same upgrade as the Madison East High School Thunderbolt. However, unlike it's sister, this one didn't make it to today. Sometime in the 90's the starter motor went out on it. A type 3 starter motor, for a 50hp siren. The cost then was $6-8000 to replace, and soon the building was being brought down. The siren was scrapped along with the building. There is some good news though, thanks to Dave, we probably have the only remaining evidence that this siren ever existed:

The H.O.R. Siren itself

HOR siren 4.jpg (393.83 KiB) Viewed 3106 times

The First National H.O.R. looking towards the capitol.

HOR siren 2.jpg (357.98 KiB) Viewed 3106 times

H.O.R. Starter Motor

hor starter.jpg (439.29 KiB) Viewed 3106 times

So that was my time meeting with Dave. I still have a lot of groundwork, and hopefully their legal department decides quickly, and in our favor.

For those interested, I will be uploading a new version of my siren map, this one will have the entirety of the Dane county system included. This would also include sirens that we have lost as well.

[Stormsetter4]

Very very very cool information. That HOR is really cool.

[holler]

Wait, so they replaced the entire siren because a size 3 motor starter failed? That's absurd. You can get a new one for $500.

If they are so concerned about the legal issues sell the units to somebody out of state.

[DJ2226]

They don't like 3 phase... what wrong with 3 phase?
I like how he calls the EOWS garbage. The controller from hell as Matt put it.

[turtlbrdr]

They don't like 3 phase... what wrong with 3 phase?
I like how he calls the EOWS garbage. The controller from hell as Matt put it.

They remark that it is very expensive. To both run and maintain 3 phase electric. Running a new line is quoted as being "thousands of dollars". And Dave doesn't really know how the States were able to run it so prolifically during the 50&60's.