Federal 2001-130 ANSI testing ???????

[MUSTANGV8]

Can anyone get a recording of 2001-130 and a T-128, I know that hearing it over an audio device will not be the the same as hearing live, but it might give you an idea of what you are listening to!

[acoustics101]

For an A/B comparison recording to be meaningful, both units should be recorded outdoors from a distance of 2 miles at identical record levels under low foreground noise conditions. This is very important. Recording from this distance will give a good disparity between the units due to frequency dependent atmospheric absorption loss. The differences in their audibility due to frequency should then become very apparent.

Do not use any automatic record level or compression when recording, as this will tend to make both sounds equally loud on the recording, with the higher frequencies being even more audible, due to the the Fletcher-Munson effect of the ear. This would blow the entire purpose of making the recording.

At close range there will be little difference in actual dB, but only in frequency, so this would not prove much. This is the whole problem in only rating warning devices in dB at 100 feet. No one listens to them at 100 feet on axis. The sound there would be deafening. If one were to go indoors from a distance of 1 mile you would definitely hear the T-128 over the 2001-130, as higher frequencies do not penetrate walls as well as lower frequencies.

Can anyone get a recording of 2001-130 and a T-128, I know that hearing it over an audio device will not be the the same as hearing live, but it might give you an idea of what you are listening to!

[holler]

It still baffles me how federal "claims" to be able to push 130 DB out of a siren that uses a very old rotor design. The model 3 rotor is far from efficient.

[acoustics101]

It's probably due to the directivity index of their 2001-130 being higher than that of a T-128. Maybe that's why they're using a higher frequency. I doubt it has equal acoustical power to its competitor. In that case you would hear it at maximum output for less percentage of the time during each rotation.

It still baffles me how federal "claims" to be able to push 130 DB out of a siren that uses a very old rotor design. The model 3 rotor is far from efficient.

[carexpertandy]

They should also contact Sycamore Township, Springdale and any other suburbs that have T-128s to see why they chose them, especially since all of these suburbs pretty much had Federal sirens prior to the installation of the T-128s.

I'm not sure why, but some of the suburbs that have T-128s also have 2001s, but I know the 2001s are definetly older than their T-128s. These suburbs would be Green Township, Sycamore Township, Anderson Township and Sharonville. Sharonville's 2001s were installed before T-128s were made, but the others got their 2001s while T-128s were made, so I'm not sure what happened here.

[SIRENMAN]

Hey: I was speaking to a rep today and he told me of a similar story that happened in Kentucky between Motorola and GE radio.

[Jim_Ferer]

Jim: I forgot to address one of your items. The FTC does have authority over this situation as in 1979 Federal was sanctioned by the FTC for a variety of violations. I have copy of the sanctions from the FTC. Again Thank you as I do not want to come across as a nut (maybe crazy but not a nut) lol. Seriously I want to inform the officials and people and that is all my intentions are.

You're entitled to do more than inform, you're entitled to a fair shot at the contract, and it sure sounds like the fix is in.

Inferring real-world performance from chamber testing always seemed hinky to me; it's just that testing that reliably predicts real-world performance and is repeatable is hard to do. I'm an engineer, but not an acoustic engineer, and I find the topic hard to follow sometimes; but I do know a lot about public purchasing and I've been up to my ears in litigation. If you can get the county and Federal to publicly answer difficult questions about this you'll have accomplished something.

[SIRENMAN]

That is all that anyone could ask for. There has been three bids and the first bid ASC was low bid the second bid Werden was lowest and the thrird bid Werden is lowest again. What really frustrates me is each time there is a bid it becomes less and less honest. The second bid Federal sold their sirens less than the State Term Contract (which may be against the law), did not test their siren according to ANSI standards, and turned in ficticious testing results, however Werden was still lower due to removal, upgrade, and reprograming. Amazingly in the thrid bid the requirements for testing, removal, upgrade, and reprograming were removed and Werden is still the lowest and best bid. I will keep you informed as to the situation.

[Archon]

The rotor on a 2001 is the same rotor on the top half of a 2T22 I saw a 2001 up close on the ground 3 days ago the rotor is the same as the 12 port rotor on a 2T22

[Jim_Ferer]

The rotor on a 2001 is the same rotor on the top half of a 2T22 I saw a 2001 up close on the ground 3 days ago the rotor is the same as the 12 port rotor on a 2T22

Nothing inherently wrong with that, of course; no point in reinventing the wheel.