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BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:42 am
by SIRENMAN
Hello: Please be aware that when you record siren activations it is most important that when you post these recordings to NOT upload the actual activation codes. DTMF, Dual Tone, and even FSK can be recorded and re transmitted to activate the sirens. Please, Please, go thru your recordings and delete the activation format. (you can keep it for your personal archives, but don't make it public)
I recently discovered this is what may have happened to a system that was just visited and recorded by our siren enthusiasts and someone may have used these to activate sirens. I am 100% sure it was not done by our enthusiasts so please do not take offense.
SIRENMAN
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:35 am
by freebrickproductions
This is why, even if I do get a scanner, I don't ever plan on including the tones. (Plus the tones just kinda ruin the audio of the siren for me, especially if they're played louder than the siren).
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:12 am
by SentryDefender1275
[edited by uncommonsense to remove strong language]
I’m not gonna delete years upon years of recordings that have Tones in them......Not gonna happen. But I’ll keep this noted for future recordings
But lately I have chopped up DTMF/tones the best I can or leave my scanner down low (Ear Rape volume is not my thing)
I apologize for my previous Comment (It wasn’t nice at all)
I partly do agree with your statement. For our safety and our Hobby we shouldn’t be blaring our tones at ear Rape.... Or just simply edit them out. I’d hate for my videos to be used for evil intentions.
-AmericanSirenProductions
-Chris Brewington
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:37 pm
by fire_freak_57
SentryDefender1275 wrote:
I’m not gonna delete years upon years of recordings that have Tones in them......Not gonna happen.
It’s also partly the cities fault for not doing something about it.
I’ll say it again.....I will not delete the content I created....It’s public Info
I have to agree with that. As information in the public domain; I don't need to delete something here or on YouTube for others to find it....if they wanna find it, they'll find another way to do so. It's in the public domain because it is not secure or classified information; otherwise people wouldn't publish such things if they wanted it to remain confidential (at least I hope they wouldn't).
It's the responsibility of local law enforcement agencies and local governments that handle these systems to safeguard such information (documents from siren manufacturers about this even say this!); and it doesn't fall on private citizens hundreds of miles and states away to do so. Just my opinion.
I don't have a scanner anyways because quite frankly I'm not a fan of having tones in my videos anyways, although sometimes I meet up with friends that have them, but the last time I actually got tones (lately when we meet up we get the frequency wrong because we only get the dispatch announcement of siren testing; and that's the only thing I like other than the siren going off quite frankly) they were inaudible. But that shouldn't mean that people have to go back editing old videos and re-uploading them because it takes a long time and is a pain.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:03 pm
by uncommonsense
I need to point out that what Clayt is saying here is critical. None of us are here to dictate to you what you must and must not do with your videos. But I would implore us, as a community, to not shirk our responsibilities to contribute positively, safely, and effectively to our interest. We have a need to be responsible citizens, especially when for many communities, upgrading activation equipment would be a cost they could not burden or would be entirely impractical. In all aspects of our lives, we share responsibility to make our communities strong rather than trying to place blame to someone else so we don't have to accept some degree of assistance.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:32 pm
by Darley Champion
The harm is already done sadly, some inactive users have videos that contain the FSK activation sequence.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:00 pm
by Mitch
I really don't think having tones in videos makes a difference. People should be free to add in the tones if it gives them the effect they want for their videos. For me, sometimes the tones inspire an interesting mix of feelings like the panic of setting them off due to some extreme emergency and an additional layer of eeriness from hearing the normally inaudible back-end system.
Having the tones is a necessary condition for someone to be able to surreptitiously activate a siren, but it is the furthest thing from being a sufficient condition. One must also have the necessary technical skill and equipment to do so, which would also serve the (relatively) easy task of recording the tones themselves if they are not readily available. Public safety frequencies are public knowledge, and further details are readily available on most any amateur radio website/forum as it's a far more widespread hobby than siren collecting. E.g.: RadioReference.com
As such, banning videos with tones in them or badgering their creators will have no effect on the alleged problem. I say "alleged" because it hasn't even been proven yet that someone used tones on YouTube to initiate an unauthorized activation of a public siren system.
I don't disagree that rogue activations can cause big problems, but I do disagree tones in videos really has anything to do with it.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:30 pm
by Lily D
Mitch wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:00 pm
I really don't think having tones in videos makes a difference. People should be free to add in the tones if it gives them the effect they want for their videos. For me, sometimes the tones inspire an interesting mix of feelings like the panic of setting them off due to some extreme emergency and an additional layer of eeriness from hearing the normally inaudible back-end system.
Having the tones is a necessary condition for someone to be able to surreptitiously activate a siren, but it is the furthest thing from being a
sufficient condition. One must also have the necessary technical skill and equipment to do so, which would also serve the (relatively) easy task of recording the tones themselves if they are not readily available. Public safety frequencies are public knowledge, and further details are readily available on most any amateur radio website/forum as it's a far more widespread hobby than siren collecting. E.g.: RadioReference.com
As such, banning videos with tones in them or badgering their creators will have no effect on the alleged problem. I say "alleged" because it hasn't even been proven yet that someone used tones on YouTube to initiate an unauthorized activation of a public siren system.
I don't disagree that rogue activations can cause big problems, but I do disagree tones in videos really has anything to do with it.
I agree with Mitch here. As siren hackings do exist and are indeed a problem, these people (whether they’re into the siren hobby or not) will surely find a way to get a hold of the tones themselves. Also, most of the sirens I personally record are at fire stations out in the boondocks of New England, and I don’t think anyone should need to worry about those. As far as the larger systems around here go, I actually know several of the EMA directors in charge, and they’re perfectly fine with me posting the tones. In my book, if you have permission from the EMA, you’re good to go.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:48 pm
by uncommonsense
I'm going to bluntly say this:
We all share in this.
To say its someone else's problem and not our own is to say we all don't play a role in public safety and preventing the malicious actions of others.
To be unwilling to assist is entitlement at its finest.
Please, do the right thing and listen to Clayt, a respected professional in the field who more than has earned the right to comment on this subject.
Re: BE AWARE OF YOUR RECORDINGS
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:30 pm
by freebrickproductions
Feel like this statement from the ARS Discord server is relevant:
- ematesttone.JPG (27.1 KiB) Viewed 4817 times