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How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:48 pm
by Allertor125guy
I have heard that single phase allertors are quite rare but how rare are they?
Thank you-Patrick
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:56 am
by T-1000
I would say they're pretty rare for a few resaons: single phase motors don't last as long as 3 phase motors so likely more single phases have been replaced (proportionally). Also I'd guess more 3 phase Allertors were produced so I would say that if you found an Allertor the chance of it being an Allertor would be <20%
However, keep in mind this is just a (very) rough guess.
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:55 am
by Darley Champion
Single phase ACA sirens were said to be tricky to start. Another reason.
Also the single phase model used start/run capacitors, and since capacitors tend to fail (they're not eternal mind you! And to make matters worse, ACA used oil-filled capacitors), this sounds like another reason as to why single phase models weren't common at all.
Moreover, some if not all single phase sirens used repulsion motors (I know FSC did, but ACA seems to have not, I'm not too sure about that) and the issue with repulsion motors is that they have brushes that eventually wear out.
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm
by fire_freak_57
Darley Champion wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:55 am
Single phase ACA sirens were said to be tricky to start. Another reason.
Also the single phase model used start/run capacitors, and since capacitors tend to fail (they're not eternal mind you!), this sounds like another reason as to why single phase models weren't common at all.
Also, some if not all single phase sirens used repulsion motors (I know FSC did, but ACA seems to have not, I'm not too sure about that) and the issue with repulsion motors is that they have brushes that eventually wear out.
The capacitors were oil filled (I think) which is one of the reasons they wore out so quickly. ACA was unique in that rather than using a capacitor based motor itself they used a capacitor based motor starter. And if I recall right and the caps were oil filled, once the oil drains (and there’s no way to refill them or anything like that), they are gone and at that point there’s not a whole lot that you can do besides get an entirely new siren (or control enclosure when ACA/ASC under Hormann American was producing them).
Most of the Allertors on single phase nowadays at least in my area are three phase models running off a phase converter.
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:13 pm
by NahIDee
fire_freak_57 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm
Darley Champion wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:55 am
Single phase ACA sirens were said to be tricky to start. Another reason.
Also the single phase model used start/run capacitors, and since capacitors tend to fail (they're not eternal mind you!), this sounds like another reason as to why single phase models weren't common at all.
Also, some if not all single phase sirens used repulsion motors (I know FSC did, but ACA seems to have not, I'm not too sure about that) and the issue with repulsion motors is that they have brushes that eventually wear out.
The capacitors were oil filled (I think) which is one of the reasons they wore out so quickly. ACA was unique in that rather than using a capacitor based motor itself they used a capacitor based motor starter. And if I recall right and the caps were oil filled, once the oil drains (and there’s no way to refill them or anything like that), they are gone and at that point there’s not a whole lot that you can do besides get an entirely new siren or control enclosure when ACA was producing them.
Most of the Allertors on single phase nowadays at least in my area are three phase models running off a phase converter.
Yes, the capacitors were filled with oil. They run fine until they just wear out from all the years of usage, which makes the siren start slower or run slower.
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:05 am
by Allenorgan42099
The single phase ACAs were notorious for bad capacitors as mentioned above. The old Allertor system in Manitowoc, WI is a good example of this (most of them are still standing but one that was replaced years ago was quite sluggish), and there is another one that is a bit sluggish too.
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:20 am
by FSThunderboltfan1000
Allenorgan42099 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:05 am
The single phase ACAs were notorious for bad capacitors as mentioned above. The old Allertor system in Manitowoc, WI is a good example of this (most of them are still standing but one that was replaced years ago was quite sluggish), and there is another one that is a bit sluggish too.
Manitowoc's siren problems do not start with capacitors it has to do with improper wiring and no maintenance. Stangel Allertor was burned out perhaps due to lighting. The one on Broadway Ave was also burned out due to lightning they believe. These Allertors are not that old they went up in 1977 and the only one that is still an original install is the highway department one on Waldo Blvd. What happened with the 26th street Alletor is that it was taken down around 2002 and placed on the pole it is on now after it was repainted and was improperly wired I believe. The siren was originally on the old firehouse across the street from its' current site. The siren was installed on the hose tower there in 1977 and when the city relocated that station and was sold to a private person they had to move the siren.
Re: How rare are single phase allertors
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:00 pm
by Allenorgan42099
FSThunderboltfan1000 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:20 am
Allenorgan42099 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:05 am
The single phase ACAs were notorious for bad capacitors as mentioned above. The old Allertor system in Manitowoc, WI is a good example of this (most of them are still standing but one that was replaced years ago was quite sluggish), and there is another one that is a bit sluggish too.
Manitowoc's siren problems do not start with capacitors it has to do with improper wiring and no maintenance. Stangel Allertor was burned out perhaps due to lighting. The one on Broadway Ave was also burned out due to lightning they believe. These Allertors are not that old they went up in 1977 and the only one that is still an original install is the highway department one on Waldo Blvd. What happened with the 26th street Alletor is that it was taken down around 2002 and placed on the pole it is on now after it was repainted and was improperly wired I believe. The siren was originally on the old firehouse across the street from its' current site. The siren was installed on the hose tower there in 1977 and when the city relocated that station and was sold to a private person they had to move the siren.
Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. I guess I just had an incorrect notion about the old Stangel siren. I know the T-128 that replaced it was going off on its own and having issues at one point too. Perhaps that location is haunted! Now that you mention all of this I think I do remember hearing that about the 26th siren too.