For all you siren buffs out there. Check this out

[Daniel]

Robert,
I don't believe that hi-lo is banned in California, because I've heard ambulances in LA activate a fast-moving "Martinshorn" that seemed to be connected to their turn signals. Presumably this was to clear an intersection. In Oregon, hi-lo is not considered a standard siren sound and is rarely used. That's why I used to have an Italian "Martinshorn" under the hood of my old Audi 200T.

[Robert Gift]

Interesting.

Is a Martinshorn (sounds like an organ stop) an actual air horn?
Why connected to turn signals?

Thanks for correcting me.
Where can I find out more about it?

[Whelen Rules]

I've been on a ride along with the Tullahoma Fire Department. All of our trucks have either PA 300 or Whelen electronics usually 200 watts(2 speakers)and all have either Q2B or other Federal Mechanical sirens on them as well as Air horns. The Electronic sirens are very effective at clearing the road, so the very seldom use the mechanical sirens. When they get close to an intersection thats a red light, the fire truck in the lead hits the Q and airhorn and thats effective at intersections. The hi-lo isn't as effective as the wail or yelp. The pierce or phaser or hyper yelp depending on what ever siren you have is also effective at intersections.

[Robert Gift]

Congratulations or your ride! Must have been fun.
With all the lawsuits and libility issues, I am surprised anyone can
allow ride-alongs.
(Just wait, if a rider views a grizzly scene, and has nightmares after that,
they will sue for traumatic stress syndrome, ending ride programs.)

Nice of them to avoid using the Q which spreads sound everywhere.

The phasor and other such contrivances are sales gimmicks not detected by the unexpecting ear as early as simple WAIL.

I like airhorn because it's sound instantly ceases.

Takes a while for the Q to slow down to pleasant low audibility.
I usually keep our electronic siren's P.A. microphone key depressed silencing the siren. Then let go for wail sound,
then press it for instant silence once traffic has cleared or everyone has stopped at an intersection.
Pressing MANUAL to start the wail is nicer, but it takes too long to wind-down.
People at bus stops beyond intersections are happy not having their ears blasted by the uneeded 4-5 second wind-down.

[loudmouth]

there is a break on the Q all our trucks are equped with them. it helps alot wene you have to make a long broadcast on the radio. but i gues its all were you live wene you live in a state were most of the drivers are called mass holes you kinda need the loudest thing cuse no one ever moves. like to day i was going threw one of the intersections and it was around noon and realy busy and a call came over my scaner for a pull box across town and the staion is about 2 blocks were i was. on a good day the hole stations can get out with minute and a half( thats 2 pumpers 1 rescue the cheif and the ladder 2) today it took them a good 5 mins to get out and down 2 blocks and threw the intersection ladder 2 got hit 3 days ago by some one who didnt hear the sirens. or see the 50' bright red truck. but o well i can kinda see what gift says about just one siren but around here just a littel diffrent

[Robert Gift]

I like siren sounds as much as anyone else here, but must consider how people in their homes and businesses are needlessly bothered.

On "***(I've been asked not to use this word before so there is now an automatic replacement censor)***"tube.com, they had video of an engine responding.
No one on the divided highway ahead, yet they had the Q blaring away
bothering anyone within earshot, --and for what?

We record our emergent runs on a dash-mounted camcorder.
If someone is really bad about moving out of the way, we have it documented for police to review and a complaint can be filed and 4-pointicket served. Then the tape can be used in court for conviction.

Viewers question why I didn't have the siren blaring as we approached a large busy RED intersection?
I was turning right and we had a right green arrow--> , so no need. No one was in the way, and why stop cross-traffic...creating fuel waste, pollution, traffic flow disruption, possibility of rearend accidents when car ahead slows and stops and following vehicle is too slow to react.

lol at "Massholes"! Thanks for the term.

Many drivers, especially semi drivers, may not hear the siren.
Not their fault.
Sound-proofed vehicles, loud stereos and airconditioning helps mask
outside sounds.
We may have also blamed the ladder truck driver for not giving the citizen
a chance to find the truck and properly react. [Many women and minorities and elderly don't react well.]

We do NOT depend on the siren - as though people are deaf.
Some are! (Usually deaf people are extra vigilant visually and detect the
EV lights before the rest of us!)

I'm guilty of it too! I was listening to Bach organ music, not loud, and did not hear a Q which was kept peaked at one high note which blended in with the music. (Sent Denver Fire an e-mail aboutheir faulty siren practice.)

Two sirens is no better than one. Loudest wins.

P.S.
Also many lights totalling 100's of flashes per minute are not as effective as a few coordinated.

My favorite lightbar was belt-driven Code 3. Each side had two three-bulb 360s. I attached the belt so both reds, both whites
and both blue bulbs flashed together. Trafficleared much sooner and further ahead - therefore I was able to sound the siren even less!
Which stands out better?: ************or same number:************

[loudmouth]

our ladder is very under equiped with lights. the front has two seprate double rotors red and white. and on the nose it has to very slow wig wag lights alog with 2 strobes one for the opi com system. oh wait one is a ocolateing light. then along theres 2 flush mounted strobes. and on the back thres is to very dull double flash standalone strobes one red one blue. the truck must be well over 20 yrs old both laders we have are old one is one peace the second is a semi mix with steerable rear axel.(these trucks are very intresting to ride up the big hills in my town with the trucks go from about 25-30ish to 10 to 5 mph up the main hill) every thing else we have is with in 5 yrs to 1 year old ecpt for the old mahn.[/code]

[Whelen Rules]

Another thing about here in Tullahoma is just about everybody can hear an electronic siren they are effective around here with out the need to blast the Q sirens. We have about 10 Trucks in the Tullahoma Fire Department which is a paid full time city department. All of our Trucks have PA 300 or Whelens (200 Watt) as well as Q2B sirens which makes other departments around us jealous because their towns won't give them the money to purchase them. When somebody even thinks they might have heard a siren they roll there windows down to to get a better"listen". I remember one time we were going down the street and we had the radio on,the air condition, and windows up, but I heard the wail of a whelen. They are very effective because they go to a high pitch when in wail which sort of blasts over everything in the car.

[Robert Gift]

Loud, your ladder truck lightsound good to me. Wigwags are VERY effective, most unexpecting eyes catch them first before anything else.
Red or blue lights in the back are a waste. They should be yellow, which appear much brighter and seen earlier from behind.
You want emergency colors in the front to gethrough intersections and yellow in the back to protecthe parked vehicle.

Tyler, I have a Whelen something, forgot what.
It produces a lower range of siren tone (which I do not like)
but which isupposedly better! Low sounds travel farther than high.
Also, low frequenciesupposedly penetrate vehicles better than high.

Wish I knew more abouthis. Maybe I need to change but I don't like the sound. They are all square waves except the eQ.

Fire departments must stop being envious and wasting taxpayers money.
If members of the department want to purchase a second siren witheir own money, fine. But you only need one sound. Two does not get you
noticed any earlier than one.

(But I recall an interesting effect on the ears when the electronic was on WAIL and the Q was running. [Our's must have been the first ambulance in Denver to have BOTH. As their tones crossed or coincided, my ears "cracked" as though going up in elevation!)

[q2bman]

Loud, your ladder truck lightsound good to me. Wigwags are VERY effective, most unexpecting eyes catch them first before anything else.
Red or blue lights in the back are a waste. They should be yellow, which appear much brighter and seen earlier from behind.
You want emergency colors in the front to gethrough intersections and yellow in the back to protecthe parked vehicle.

Tyler, I have a Whelen something, forgot what.
It produces a lower range of siren tone (which I do not like)
but which isupposedly better! Low sounds travel farther than high.
Also, low frequenciesupposedly penetrate vehicles better than high.

Wish I knew more abouthis. Maybe I need to change but I don't like the sound. They are all square waves except the eQ.


Fire departments must stop being envious and wasting taxpayers money.
If members of the department want to purchase a second siren witheir own money, fine. But you only need one sound. Two does not get you
noticed any earlier than one.

(But I recall an interesting effect on the ears when the electronic was on WAIL and the Q was running. [Our's must have been the first ambulance in Denver to have BOTH. As their tones crossed or coincided, my ears "cracked" as though going up in elevation!)

I don't agree at all with anything you are saying! A siren needs to be sounded at all times when responding to an emergency. What about the guy that looks left then right and didn't see your sequential lightbar cause it was inbetween flashes. The guy pulls out in front of you. You going to have time to activate the siren before he get killed? Also, just yellow in the back may be brighter but red and blue allow motorists to know what they are driving up on. If they see yellow they may think a construction crew is up ahead. Even the construction people here in Texas use red and blue. Makes the motorists think the police are ahead and they slow down.
The q siren is only on for a few seconds and in total, what a five min response time. People can't be bothere for five mins to make the road safer. Give me a break. Be loud and save lives! Also, the more lights the better. Some portions of your vehicle may be blocked by trees, cars, buildings, etc. More light will be seen. Synced lights were proven ineffective in the eighties! That's why they are not made anylonger. LED lighting is somethime synced as you mentioned but they have strobe type flash patterns to get attention. And wig-wags are only effective at moving people to the right. They do almost nothing for intersection warning. The dual siren tones used by our ambulance service are very attention getting. One stays on wail for distant warning and one on yelp for up close warning. The cracking noise you refered too is produced as well and moves traffic. It has been my experience that fast multi pattern strobe lights move traffic. I would always switch to a slow alternateing patter when stationary. People observing you from a distance can judge you location better with a slower pattern. People driving down the road comming in contact with an emergency vehicle need quick bright patterns to grab attention. And most need a slap in the face for not knowing what to do or just not careing.