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What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:57 pm
by ThatGuy2020
So, We just powered up a Federal Electric Model 2 after 40 years of not turning on. It’s a 220V variant. It was one of the sirens in the Pennington NJ fire siren system and it is one of two Model 2s.
But I noticed something when it was testing, the four contacts connected to the motor, when under power, will spark up. Does anyone know what’s going on? Or if it is normal or dangerous?
- IMG_7514.jpeg (346.79 KiB) Viewed 4395 times
Also we dated it to about 1934, is that correct based on the serial No.
(also Included the tag of the siren, to show voltage and electrical details)
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 10:17 pm
by Greenrid
Were you able to replace the brushes yet? To me, it seems like a brush issue. As you said, the Model 2 hasn't ran in 40 years, and It's probably never had a brush change in its lifetime. The brushes will wear from the constant friction, which will make them smaller over time. to me, this definitely looks like the brushes are arcing from the stator to the brush due to a gap. If the brush seems fine, then the spring is probably rusted out.
All you have to do is try to take the brush out and try to unjam it, if it is a spring problem, and if it's a brush problem, you can go online and buy some ridgid 44540 brushes for the motor!
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:52 am
by Mr. Hurricane2024
Is that Stewart you've got there?
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:36 am
by Synther
Some sparking is normal, as long as it's not excessive and the siren sounds fine. If you are really concerned though, you can remove one of the brushes to check for wear.
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 2:44 pm
by NCAsirens11
Brushed motor, so 1 phase. Try giving the commutator a good cleaning. Conductive material and oil can get stuck in the commutator segments and cause sparking.
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:53 pm
by CanadianTbolt1003
Greenrid wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 10:17 pm
Were you able to replace the brushes yet? To me, it seems like a brush issue. As you said, the Model 2 hasn't ran in 40 years, and It's probably never had a brush change in its lifetime. The brushes will wear from the constant friction, which will make them smaller over time. to me, this definitely looks like the brushes are arcing from the stator to the brush due to a gap. If the brush seems fine, then the spring is probably rusted out.
All you have to do is try to take the brush out and try to unjam it, if it is a spring problem, and if it's a brush problem, you can go online and buy some ridgid 44540 brushes for the motor!
This model 2 is an older one and is not a newer 2-brush version that started to be used mid to late 50s just before Federal changed from Federal Enterprises to Federal Sign & Signal. The older 2s used two smaller brushes on each side.
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:03 am
by Greenrid
CanadianTbolt1003 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:53 pm
Greenrid wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 10:17 pm
Were you able to replace the brushes yet? To me, it seems like a brush issue. As you said, the Model 2 hasn't ran in 40 years, and It's probably never had a brush change in its lifetime. The brushes will wear from the constant friction, which will make them smaller over time. to me, this definitely looks like the brushes are arcing from the stator to the brush due to a gap. If the brush seems fine, then the spring is probably rusted out.
All you have to do is try to take the brush out and try to unjam it, if it is a spring problem, and if it's a brush problem, you can go online and buy some ridgid 44540 brushes for the motor!
This model 2 is an older one and is not a newer 2-brush version that started to be used mid to late 50s just before Federal changed from Federal Enterprises to Federal Sign & Signal. The older 2s used two smaller brushes on each side.
I never knew the brushes (and I guess the motors in general) were different on older models, that's pretty cool! Why change the design? Was it because of this sparking?
Re: What is my Model 2 doing?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2025 11:23 pm
by CanadianTbolt1003
Greenrid wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:03 am
CanadianTbolt1003 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:53 pm
Greenrid wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 10:17 pm
Were you able to replace the brushes yet? To me, it seems like a brush issue. As you said, the Model 2 hasn't ran in 40 years, and It's probably never had a brush change in its lifetime. The brushes will wear from the constant friction, which will make them smaller over time. to me, this definitely looks like the brushes are arcing from the stator to the brush due to a gap. If the brush seems fine, then the spring is probably rusted out.
All you have to do is try to take the brush out and try to unjam it, if it is a spring problem, and if it's a brush problem, you can go online and buy some ridgid 44540 brushes for the motor!
This model 2 is an older one and is not a newer 2-brush version that started to be used mid to late 50s just before Federal changed from Federal Enterprises to Federal Sign & Signal. The older 2s used two smaller brushes on each side.
I never knew the brushes (and I guess the motors in general) were different on older models, that's pretty cool! Why change the design? Was it because of this sparking?
I am unsure. I think it was to improve the design with just 1 brush for each side.