Inaudible sirens and car accidents

[kx250rider]

I've probably posted here on this subject in the past, but in a nut shell:

I've noticed how dangerous the electronic tone sirens on emergency vehicles can be. I've had several near-misses with LAPD cars, and others have died when they didn't get so lucky as a near-miss. The problem is, unlike mechanical sirens, I cannot hear them until they're aimed square at my car, and only if totally unobstructed and if I have no radio on/no loud engine. On January 26, I witnessed a terrible crash right in my face between a Ventura County, CA sheriff's deputy and a young man in a Mitsubishi. I saw the patrol car come out of the station, with lights and (so-called) siren on, and of course I couldn't hear any siren until it got very close. The patrol car was southbound on Spring St, and the other guy was eastbound on Hwy 118 at the speed limit (45) with a green light. There is a blind corner with a soundproofing wall at that corner, and the timing was just perfect that the patrol car and the other car could not see each other around the corner until it was too late. I saw them coming, and I knew it was check mate. Not even enough time for either driver to let go of the gas, let alone put the brakes on. Just CRASH!!!!!!! The guy in the other car seemed OK, but later found out he had a ripped tendon in the shoulder, and has had surgery. The officer had broken ribs & hand. Another witness and I ran up and forced the patrol car open, and let the officer out.

I was so angry that it happened, so I wrote a powerful letter to the Ventura County Board of Supervisors the next day. I also followed the case, and watched as the politics came up in full force. First, the CA Highway Patrol ruled that it was the other driver's fault, and what a bunch of crap! I heard about that, and I wrote more letters. Then the media got involved, and suddenly the report changed, but now they've made it the deputy's fault. WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!! So now, I have written enough about it that the Ventura County Sheriff has opened a new investigation, and I was called in yesterday to the Internal Affairs Bureau, where they WILL get to the bottom of it. The Ventura County sergeants with whom I met yesterday, seemed to be in complete agreement with my thoughts on the useless sirens, and I will be anxiously awaiting their final report, if they share it. I spoke again yesterday with the newspaper reporter who has been keeping up on it, and she's going to continue to report.

Here's a link to the article in the Moorpark Acorn; our local paper:

http://www.mpacorn.com/news/2010-04-09/ ... crash.html

And here's the original article I wrote back in '06 on the subject of inaudible police sirens, which was in the aftermath of several deaths in the City of Los Angeles:

Charles

[Daniel]

I think that the keywords are directed sound and pitch level. All siren speakers direct sound toward that which they are pointed. Most mechanical sirens emit sound to the sides as well as the front, reverberating off buildings and other vehicles in a way that speakers cannot. Also, mechanical coaster sirens will linger on lower pitches that electronic sirens cannot duplicate, increasing penetration into today's well-insulated cars. Martinshorn-style alternating air horns, which I have always liked, are more directional than mechanical sirens, but easier heard inside cars than electronic sirens. Perhaps that is also due to their lower pitch. Perhaps some of our German posters could contrast the audibility of air-driven Martinshorns versus electronic ones.

[Jim_Ferer]

I've experienced Martinshorns and I'm convinced they could be a complete replacement for sirens in many applications. Years ago volunteers in Virginia could have automatically alternating air horns (which were legal as sirens for all applications; don't know about now). One guy had real Martinshorns, and his car was louder than the chief's. Even some of the dinky J.C. Whitney stuff wasn't that bad. (And no, I didn't have the little bobble-head dog on the back deck whose eyes lit up when you hit the brakes. I didn't have the topless-girl steering knob either.)

[Daniel]

The JC Whitney/Wolo "European air horn" is an Italian-made Fiamm horn that is actually used by some police agencies in Italy. It is just as loud as other two-horn sirens. Most of the original "Martinshorn" sirens (still made in Germany by Max B. Martin GmbH) have four trumpets, two for each note tuned slightly out of phase for dissonance, and are much louder than a two-horn model.

http://www.maxbmartin.de/start.html

[TBOLT1000]

I agree with you, they should put mechanical sirens back on emergency vehicles, today on my way home from school, I was able to hear a fire truck,with a federal Q siren on it, coming down the road, it was about 1/2 a mile to a mile away when I first heard it, but when a police car with an electronic siren goes by, I can`t hear until it is about 2 blocks away.

[CJ]

Here I can hear a copper or a fire engine from quite some distance away! But maybe that's to do with the density of population, meaning that the sound goes off all the buildings rather nicely.

I am probably right in saying that there are some rather nice gaps between houses over the puddle - that would be the problem. On a motorway however, I don't EVER hear sirens until the thing is next to the passenger window!

Almost forgot to mention, in all my (not too many) years I've never seen me a mechanical siren, let alone a siren on a pole :/. All the vehicle sirens over here are electronic, unless you've got some blasted old thing!

[Daniel]

Charlie, you need to find yourself a large, American siren on Ebay and put it on your car. I don't know what you drive, but to hear that sound coming from under something like a Vauxhall Corsa would be very unusual!

I understand that some Scottish ambulances still use the two-tone horns, and you might also find them in Ireland, but I'm not aware of any mechanical vehicle sirens ever having been used in the British Isles. Interestingly, I read that there are a few older fire vehicles in Finland that have Federal Q sirens still in use. Of course, that is a long way from you.

[CJ]

Two problems there. You'd blow the electrical system, and I can't drive yet! Not for about 2 years and a month! I could put it on the kart, but I don't think that it would run particularly well with the lack of any electrical systems that aren't for the engine in the kilovolt range! Or go through scrutineering too well..

As for Scotland, I've never been up that far north. One daren't cross into the land of haggis I wouldn't be surprised if some of their older vehicles still use two-tone horns - old fire engines down this way certainly did and I'm sure I've heard a fair few down this way. They seem to carry better for sure, to the point where I heard them over the noise of a teacher getting absolutely wrecked to hell! Of course there was snow on the field and the school I go to is right next to a major major route into London.

On a slightly OT note, Britain has the highest number of reported tornadoes per square mile of land in the world apparently! Yet no sirens for this purpose? Go figure. Then again they aren't that common, somehow. Hopefully I'll be able to find a siren and record it this summer, if I can get a ride up to the land of Castle Castings.

[Daniel]

Tornadoes in Britain? I suppose they can happen anywhere, and they do touch down in northern Germany sometimes. As for your kart, just think of the added thrust you would get, provided that you direct the siren's ports to the rear and wear a well-insulated helmet.

I would try haggis -- once, as I am related to a well-known Borderlands family, but I'm smart enough to know that any dinner which culminates in the ritual stabbing of the main course has to be suspect.

[CJ]

As for your kart, just think of the added thrust you would get, provided that you direct the siren's ports to the rear and wear a well-insulated helmet.

I reckon the 100cc engine on it would probably outsound a mechanical siren, unless it was a Q or so, it's crazy loud up in the 15,000's it's no weak thing. I hope you were being sarcastic.

Tornadoes have a tendency to touch down near Birmingham from what I've heard, and there was one in 2005 (i think), an F-1? that took a few house roofs away.. british homes are built strong.

Dragging the thread back on topic, what mechanical vehicle sirens aside from the Q are still even made?