the CICCA siren rabbit hole

[Dorianelevator]

By the way, before I forget, lemme drop a couple of GMaps links, there's the other Liancourt siren, on the SDIS-60 building:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iXtSWdkwMazLm5Tv9

And the Ully-saint-Georges' CEN "Sans-Pavillons" siren:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/oPQiTog8o1xqsobA8

Alternative angle:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1v9ncHNhGNMfbj1b6

One last before I go, the Boran-sur-Oise siren, located on the municipal library:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/hcPCfRUWvBsJPVqG7

I couldn't find my screenshots that I had made, so that'll do, I hope.

I'll keep you updated on the Klaxon SO-4 saga as well

Edit:

Some extra ones before I go, Angicourt also has (had?) a CEN siren, hiding in the city hall belfry under the bell:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/WMF5c3J1vSdJxj6t9

Laigneville's oddball siren, I don't know if it's a 10-port unit, but it sure does look like the old Verneuil siren:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/WMF5c3J1vSdJxj6t9

Here's another weird one in Montataire, 10 ports from the looks of it as well as a cone hat? That screams Cicca to me...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uenUy8nBc9AuTEwr9

i tried to answer to you, but weirdly my post never appeared, but anyways, i have information : so for the Laignevile siren, no info, since you ACIDENTALLY put the same link as the Angicourt siren, so i cant see what it looks like, apart from that, the one in Montataire is definitely a CEN according to julien boller, and finally, the one in Boran-sur-Oise is a Demay R3P. the same one im gonna get. as for the one im gonna buy, here is some info about it : first, it sadly does not have the "pavillons" as they are called by manufacturers, and they are called "cornes" by julien boller, but in english they are horns, it does have the "birdcage" thing on the bottom, but the grille is missing, also, here are images of it from the seller :

the siren itself :


the label :


the siren's underneath (dont ask me how but he managed to FLIP it over on its motor) :


and finally the "turbine" aka rotor :


now, thats kind of all i have to say, tho i did find this : https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/2378466517.htm its a PTR Delta, all rusty, and super expensive, in my opinion i prefer the Demay R3P to this thing so i will still go with that, so now if anyone needs a PTR Delta, then here you go. also thats kind of all i have to say, but back on topic, i found another CICCA siren on sale, similar to that black one in very good condition, exept that its the TOTAL opposite and its in horrible condition : https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/2409148192.htm but the worst part, is that he sells it, FOR A HIGHER PRICE THAN THE GOOD CONDITION ONE. no one is going to buy this garbage, plus it might not even work. but atleast we know there are more of this specific model out there... anyways, thats all i have to say for today.

[Darley Champion]

Re: Laigneville and Montataire — if I could I would've gotten a couple of drone shots of the siren up-close so we could finally nail down what brand it is, anyways fixed my mistake:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iTFAB5esMdxBJh9y9

(I wish I had a drone with a camera just for that...)

As for the other Cicca siren you found, I'm torn between it being a Cicca siren, or a Chollet. MAYBE Cicca succedded the Chollet company? That's the question that has been on my mind.

As for the Demay, I've got a question, how do you differentiate a KMEurop/KM-Sécur (Finsécur) siren from a Demay R3P?

I know that the (late) Cicca and CEN sirens have a smaller rotor intake cage, but if you'd put my hometown's siren next to your Demay (by the way, congrats, that one looks pristine!), I wouldn't be able to tell the difference at a first glance.

Just for good measure, here's my hometown's siren, compared to Boran siren, it looks like the pavillons/horns (I'd figured "corne" is being a literal translation, but maybe that's just me) are a bit larger than on the Demay, and the motor looks also different:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/gD9sPschgvqjay9C9

[Dorianelevator]

Re: Laigneville and Montataire — if I could I would've gotten a couple of drone shots of the siren up-close so we could finally nail down what brand it is, anyways fixed my mistake:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iTFAB5esMdxBJh9y9

(I wish I had a drone with a camera just for that...)

As for the other Cicca siren you found, I'm torn between it being a Cicca siren, or a Chollet. MAYBE Cicca succedded the Chollet company? That's the question that has been on my mind.

As for the Demay, I've got a question, how do you differentiate a KMEurop/KM-Sécur (Finsécur) siren from a Demay R3P?

I know that the (late) Cicca and CEN sirens have a smaller rotor intake cage, but if you'd put my hometown's siren next to your Demay (by the way, congrats, that one looks pristine!), I wouldn't be able to tell the difference at a first glance.

Just for good measure, here's my hometown's siren, compared to Boran siren, it looks like the pavillons/horns (I'd figured "corne" is being a literal translation, but maybe that's just me) are a bit larger than on the Demay, and the motor looks also different:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/gD9sPschgvqjay9C9

for identifying Demay R3P sirens, its easy :
first, look at the motor, if its round, and has no lines, then good, if it does have lines or is not that, its not a Demay R3P. then, if the horns have grilles that have a hexagon kind of attachment around them, then its not a Demay R3P.
Demay R3P sirens also tend to have the longer "birdcage" on the bottom, and it is supported by 4 thick pillars, if they are thin, or that there are more, its definitely not a Demay R3P.
and finally, if it has a square/rectangle horn attachment, then it could be one. if it does not then it definitely isnt.
so, next time you look at a siren, in case it has all of these specs, it could be a Demay R3P.
Edit : yes, i only saw the link to your hometown's siren now, and yes, DEFINITELY a Demay R3P, also fun, fact : they almost always run on 2850rpm instead of 3000rpm, making them lower pitched.
Edit 2 : tho, i cant see the motor of the Boran-Sur-Oise siren, so i assume it has a round motor, so Demay R3P, if its not, then it isnt.
for Laigneville, its a CEN 10 port according to julien boller once again, tho, ohohoh, i got something... what about a 12 PORT french siren, well, gotcha, Régusse, remember that ? IT WORKS. I WENT THERE TODAY AND IT FIRED UP. weirdly, instead of the test signal, it did a "fin d'alerte" signal, but it was 3x longer, very strange... and the video is here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLeiQq30GBM finally, apart from that, i tried to find CICCA sirens, yet, everything i find are either CEN sirens, even more CEN sirens that got obliterated by Pakita LC sirens, or just more boring Pakita LC sirens. now thats all i have to say for today.
Edit : i looked at julien boller's siren map and found this : https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7544535 ... ?entry=ttu, idk what it is, but it looks like a CICCA. not sure if its a CEN, but probably some sort of CICCA.

[Darley Champion]

The Boran siren's motor if I recall correctly was a TEFC (totally encased, fan cooled) motor with fins on the casing. It felt more angular, although from memory, it didn't have hexagonal brackets on the horns' openings. So maybe it's a R3P core with a newer motor? I could not see how many pillars it had.

As for my hometown's siren, I always thought it was a KMEurop 1kW unit (primarily because of the hexagonal grids on the horns) when it was still regularly tested, I remember it had a slow wind-up with a lower pitch, then it "flared up" in pitch, as if it was running off a Star/Wye-Delta (couplage Étoile/Triangle) starter, the last time I heard it however, it sounded like a phase was cross-wired.

Since it's right by my house, I'll hop over to the city hall and try to see if it has thick or thin pillars, by the way, thanks for the info on the R3Ps, I do have a copy of a KMEurop brochure somewhere in the digital mess that my computer's hard drive is.



By the way, I got some news regarding the So-4: The seller refuses to ship it (awww) but a friend of mine who lives in the area might be able to pick it up and ship it my way... Fingers crossed.

[Darley Champion]

for identifying Demay R3P sirens, its easy :
first, look at the motor, if its round, and has no lines, then good, if it does have lines or is not that, its not a Demay R3P. then, if the horns have grilles that have a hexagon kind of attachment around them, then its not a Demay R3P.
Demay R3P sirens also tend to have the longer "birdcage" on the bottom, and it is supported by 4 thick pillars, if they are thin, or that there are more, its definitely not a Demay R3P.
and finally, if it has a square/rectangle horn attachment, then it could be one. if it does not then it definitely isnt.
so, next time you look at a siren, in case it has all of these specs, it could be a Demay R3P.

Yeah so I took a look at it, and this is what I found:

• Motor: Round, no fins or anything
• Horn screens: None (?)
• Stator base pillars: Thick, could not see how many there was
• Horn-to-stator attachment: Unknown, but the horns' rotor side ends are rectangular
• Base: Tall

Also, here's some things I noted down some time ago, when my friend still had his CICCA siren:

The Cicca sirens' rotor also has rectangular openings (versus the square openings on the PTRs and CENs) but unlike the Demay rotors, their outer border is flat and in the middle, there's a cone where the motor shaft attaches to. However the Cicca siren that my friend had looked "squished" just like a CEN does and had hexagonal meshes on the horns.

There's also AE&T sirens, though I believe they're rebadged KMEurop/KM-Sécur sirens.

[Dorianelevator]

The Boran siren's motor if I recall correctly was a TEFC (totally encased, fan cooled) motor with fins on the casing. It felt more angular, although from memory, it didn't have hexagonal brackets on the horns' openings. So maybe it's a R3P core with a newer motor? I could not see how many pillars it had.

As for my hometown's siren, I always thought it was a KMEurop 1kW unit (primarily because of the hexagonal grids on the horns) when it was still regularly tested, I remember it had a slow wind-up with a lower pitch, then it "flared up" in pitch, as if it was running off a Star/Wye-Delta (couplage Étoile/Triangle) starter, the last time I heard it however, it sounded like a phase was cross-wired.

Since it's right by my house, I'll hop over to the city hall and try to see if it has thick or thin pillars, by the way, thanks for the info on the R3Ps, I do have a copy of a KMEurop brochure somewhere in the digital mess that my computer's hard drive is.



By the way, I got some news regarding the So-4: The seller refuses to ship it (awww) but a friend of mine who lives in the area might be able to pick it up and ship it my way... Fingers crossed.

that means that the Boran siren is not a Demay R3P, too bad for that. but Demay makes multiple siren models, that one could be another of Demay's models that i currently do not know.

[Dorianelevator]

for identifying Demay R3P sirens, its easy :
first, look at the motor, if its round, and has no lines, then good, if it does have lines or is not that, its not a Demay R3P. then, if the horns have grilles that have a hexagon kind of attachment around them, then its not a Demay R3P.
Demay R3P sirens also tend to have the longer "birdcage" on the bottom, and it is supported by 4 thick pillars, if they are thin, or that there are more, its definitely not a Demay R3P.
and finally, if it has a square/rectangle horn attachment, then it could be one. if it does not then it definitely isnt.
so, next time you look at a siren, in case it has all of these specs, it could be a Demay R3P.

Yeah so I took a look at it, and this is what I found:

• Motor: Round, no fins or anything
• Horn screens: None (?)
• Stator base pillars: Thick, could not see how many there was
• Horn-to-stator attachment: Unknown, but the horns' rotor side ends are rectangular
• Base: Tall

Also, here's some things I noted down some time ago, when my friend still had his CICCA siren:

The Cicca sirens' rotor also has rectangular openings (versus the square openings on the PTRs and CENs) but unlike the Demay rotors, their outer border is flat and in the middle, there's a cone where the motor shaft attaches to. However the Cicca siren that my friend had looked "squished" just like a CEN does and had hexagonal meshes on the horns.

There's also AE&T sirens, though I believe they're rebadged KMEurop/KM-Sécur sirens.

very high chance of being a Demay R3P there, tho, i have noticied you dont really know the diffrence betwheen square and rectangle attachments, well, they are the same, i just prefer calling them rectangles because it isnt really a square the height is longer, now you know, as for the AE&T sirens, i already knew about them, theres also the ADF systems sirens but there are just rebranded KM europ sirens, tho, do you have any information about the tiny 12 port sirens ? its weird since, theres not many of these, and normally they have a tiny motor, but on the one in Régusse, someone slapped a CEN NP2S siren motor on it, making it higher pitched, normally they sound like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTtPV2ZmC0w (it might not be the same model, it looks slightly diffrent) because they use a 2850rpm motor,but since this one has a NP2S motor, it runs on 3000rpm instead, making it sound like a Klaxon/Secomak CS8 if you blocked the low tone shutter, also if you need a video of it, here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLeiQq30GBM now finally, theres another of these tiny little things at Montmeyan next to a full-sized CEN siren, same one as in Entrecasteaux (its a NP2S siren) just without the horns, but this time, the tiny siren still has its original motor, and its the same model as in Régusse just with a diffrent motor, probably the original one, and i have taken a photo of it, here :

i have literally no information about these tiny 12 port sirens, but, as far as i know, they not so common, also theres another one of these in Cuges-Les-Pins. and finally, back to the CICCA sirens, oh well, i never told you, but i live very close to Barjols (the town that had a CICCA siren), and, every single time i need to go back home from there, i have to take a huge turn, and in that turn, the CICCA siren is right there, visible, like, VERY visible, so each time i go on that turn, i cant stop myself but to think of these CICCA sirens.

[Darley Champion]

About those 12 ports siren, I believe those are older KMEurop/KM-Secur KM0[S] or KM1S.

Edit: To clarify, these small "pancake" sirens come in three types: 0.25kW (KM-0), 0.55kW (KM-0-S) and 1.1kW (KM-1-S).

KM-Sécur only show one model without saying if it's the KM-0[S] or the 1S, so given the size, I'd say the siren you found is a KM-0 or KM-0-S.

[Dorianelevator]

i tried to put the quote but it interpreted it as a striketrough thing, so it literally striketrough'd my whole message, sorry.

what about the one in Régusse ? it looks like this :

it has a CEN NP2S motor on it from Construction Electrique Du Nord, pretty weird. i asssume its a remplacement motor, also if you want the siren test, here :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLeiQq30GBM anyways, back to the CICCA topic, oh well, i found a siren and i have a doubt its a CICCA. it looks like a PTR but it isnt since PTR horns twist to the right if its a version with the motor on the bottom, but this siren has them twist to the left, so, that could be a CICCA ? anyways, if you need the gmap link, here :
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9660233 ... entry=ttu
EDIT : after confirmation from julien boller, that is a CEN.
now, MAYBE this is a CEN (EDIT : it is) , but i belive its a CICCA for now, also, for the Demay R3P thingy, yes, i am still waiting, since leboncoin's payment is dying, each time i try to pay for it, leboncoin freezes up. even on 3x and 4x payment. i will probably try and send the money manually. anyways, thats all i have to say, right ? nope, just one more thing, that is, whats the diffrence betwheen CEN and KMEurop/KM-Secur ?

[Darley Champion]

Regusse looks like to be a KM-1-S, given the size that's the only probability that comes to mind.

The smaller one you found I'm fairly positive it's a KM-0 or KM-0-S, if there's any difference between the "plain" and the "S" variant.